Pınar Selek

Up to now I am nurtured by every interview that I have made. But this time something else happened. When four women met, experiences, grieves, resistances and dreams melt into each other… Lives flew forth.
As we continue talking, Eda, Selda, Gülseren and I complete each other, and we stimulate each other.
Eda is the mother of an 18 years old transsexual. The son of Gülseren, who is 20 years old, is a bisexual. And Selma has a gay son, being 25 years old. All three of them facing the challenges of being a mother of a transsexual or a bisexual, all alone, found a place to be relieved in Lambda which is fighting against the decision of closure. There they hugged each other and established “Lambda Family Group”. Mehmet Tarhan, who is a Lambda volunteer and has made big contributions to the establishment of the group, told me that he was much impressed by this process: “I am open to my family but we do not talk about my orientation much. But of course I had some expectations from my family. I have changed through this work a lot. I’ve understood that what we experience as a problem, they experience it as well. It is not easy to be the mother of a homosexual. They are caught by social pressures, mental confusions, reactions among the relationships with relatives, without ever having been prepared. It is hard to struggle against these hardships, since they are not a part of an organization. They experience the shock in front of the death. After being a part of the Lambda family work, I begin to expect less from my family. I observed that we are expecting too much from them… It’s wrong.”

Eda, Gülseren and Selda have learnt much from their own children and the friends of their children, for example Mehmet, as well. When having the enthusiasm by paving the way “in the midst of a mine field”, they rejuvenated, they discovered their femininity, their sexuality and their existence.
And thus we did not only talk about the experience of being the mother of a gay or of a transsexual, but we also talked about womanhood, sexuality, social pressure, borders, what has been discovered, and life…

Families Suffer A Lot As Well…
Selma, Eda, Gülseren… All three of you are participating in the family work in Lambda. May we start with the story of the family group?
Selma: I wrote several articles to newspapers the year before. One of them was the “Letter to Mothers as an Address” which was published in Radikal. It attracted a lot of interest. At that time I was trying to participate to the parties of Lambda, to this and that. And then I began to visit more frequently. Şahika Yüksel, who was impressed with my article, invited met to an international congress as a spokesperson. In the congress I’ve told the story of my life as the mother of a gay; how I was informed, how I did accept, and how I reached these days… And after that we made a few interviews for certain magazines. Meanwhile, kids in Lambda had discussed and decided that it would be a good idea to establish a family group. I was telling them “I am ready, if mothers come here.” We gathered with kids and began to organize the families.

There was not a family or person, except you?
S: There was only me. After a meeting with kids for a few times, we met with Gülseren. We were acquainted with her son. He was visiting us from time to time. He said, “My mom wants to come as well.”

Most probably your son was informing you about what was happening… How did you feel a need?
Gülseren: Yes, he mentioned. I did not need particularly, but I wanted to share more with my son. He wanted to introduce the mother of one of his friends. And I said, “Of course.” Indeed, I wanted to know his friends particularly.

His friends and his families…
G: Of course… I accepted immediately and we met with Selma. Then we began to go frequently to Lambda together. They were adapting a handbook which they had obtained from abroad. We also contributed to the handbook, by remarking that families, in our society, would react this guideline this way, that if we express ourselves this way it is better. Then we began to arrange regular meetings. We wanted that the families of the children who are in the phase of opening would come. But it is not attractive for every family to come to Lambda… Thus, we began to gather elsewhere. First gathering was in a café. Two fathers and a family came there. Thus, we increased to three families. Then, we arrange a nightly organization. There we were 30 persons.

Families?
G: Of course, there were siblings, nephews, nieces… But the number of mothers and fathers increased, too. Those participated in the night organization became happy a lot. We felt that everybody wanted to put an effort. And still we continue. After kids have opened, the process which families undergo is very painful. To me it was not so painful, but to a lot of families it is painful…

First Denial then Acquisition

The process of opening is a hardship for children. But families are suffering, though differently, as well, isn’t it?
G: Families suffer a lot… This is not related with the level of education, but with being informed about this issue much more… Well, if somebody has been graduated from university or has a career at some level, they are ignorant because of social, traditional, religious stereotypes. Thus, both the family overcomes the process very strenuously and the detachment between them is not easy to be subdued. Mostly there is a period of mutual isolation, they disavow each other… I mean, they act, as if such a problem does not exist. Then the relation comes to its end.

How did you experience?
G: I overcame easily, relatively. Since I am working since 20 years in the medical field as a laborant and since I am a part of various activities, I knew that homosexuality was not a disease and I knew that it is possible that my child would be homosexual, too.

But how, when it happened directly?

G: It came out that I did not know everything perfectly. For example, I thought it was a choice. I did not feel anything up to his puberty.

Did you recognize at first?

G: Of course, I recognized and I felt that I need to go to a psychologist in his puberty. My child was not sharing as much as before he had shared with us, he was sitting in front of the computer. He became a silent child. But he was a very talkative, cheerful one. Thus I said to him, “Look, there is a therapist being expert at youth. A friend of mine went to her with her child… If you want, let us, your father, me and you, together, visit her, and you may share your problems which you do not share with us.” He accepted, thus we went to Çapa. Therapist talked to the child solely and said, “He is a child who is very naïve, emotional, with good feelings. But he is not raised as a macho, he does not like to swear, he does not like brutal settings. Do not mind. If he may need, he will call me.” We said “We also did not want anything else. We wanted a child who has a liberal vision, who can express himself within society.” and left, but we were not peaceful because a psychologist said, since he was a child “the relation with father is missing.” Thus I always led him to his father, but saw that nothing ever changed. Then, I went to another therapist in Çapa. She told me that he was gay, this was an orientation and we cannot change this. I thought that homosexuality was a choice. But it was not. Doctor told that there was nothing to do: “Do not deprive him from your love, support him in every issue.” And we always did this…

Selma, was your experience as easy as that?
S: No, it was harder…. It was me who first recognized that my child was homosexual.

Mothers recognize earlier, isn’t it?
S: Mothers recognize earlier… First I watched, observed.

How old was he?
S: He was seventeen. It was his period of puberty. I was always thinking that way: No not, not so, I am raising him perfectly, how can he be? It is impossible that it would happen to us… Someday I made him sit in front of me; we began to ask questions together with his father, it was a nice calm talk. Finally, we said “Whatever you are, you our son, we love you, we accept you in every way you are.” First he said something as “No, I am not!” but than he could not resist and he opened himself: “Yes, I am gay.” He was relieved, but we were ruined. We cried, we embraced each other; we said “We need to get help.” because it was an issue about what we do not know anything. Our thinking was shaped by what we heard from others, we thought within the context of the norms of society. First there was a period of denial. No, not, our child is confused. Was he harassed sexually? Did it happen this way, did it happen that way? Let us go to someone from whom we may get help and let us clarify what is happening…
What kind of an attitude had the first person you advised?
S: She behaved very well. She told that I and he should continue with sessions separately and said that the process would take long. I went weekly and my son two times a week. We coincided with the right person. We did not spend a lot of time by roaming around as our friends. But we felt conscience after the period of denial as well. “We could not be a role model sufficiently…” I blamed my husband, “You never did care; you never spent time…” Where did I mistaken? To my surprise, there was a model of perfect mother which we were addicted to. Indeed it was destroyed and ruined. Well, I said to myself, “How I couldn’t understand my son for so many years”…

Since you did not know that it is concerning orientation you blamed yourself…
S: Exactly. The person we were visiting told that it was an orientation, that it was not an illness and that we should pass through the process of acceptance. And in the sessions she made me examine myself: “What are you doing for yourself? What is your worldview? Write these down and bring them to me.” She was giving assignments. The sessions were beautiful… I began to examine my inner world. We had a process of approximately six months. After this process I composed myself.

But it took six months…
S: In six months I solved myself because all of my values were destroyed. Notions concerning belief, God, family… I am the daughter of my mother, but who am I? I did not exist under anything. I began to structuralize myself. I composed myself slowly. And since I have composed myself, my daughter and my husband succeeded to compose themselves. My child was relieved. Then I turned to my child, well, how does he feel, what does he think, what does he experience?

What does he need…
S: What are his emotions, what he needs? It is different completely, really… Remember, there were images which we had drawn when we were children, it is exactly the same, if she will be a girl, she will be a bride, and found a family… Similarly for male children… All of our dreams were completely destroyed. And we were worrying “How can we resist the reactions of our surroundings? How can we live with it?” We made research continuously. Personal development, to know your child and yourself… I’ve read a lot of books. I looked for my child in all these lines. How can I approach him? How can I understand him better? First days were hard. And when he came from school, he was asking “Are you sad?”

Maybe he was blaming himself too…
S: He was saying, “Mum, you don’t worry, do you?” I was making up; I was trying to act so that he might not worry. And after I became more conscious, I depressed more because my child had undergone that period and he has really been challenged… He even thought about committing suicide. When we were informed about it, he began to accept recently… He had a period of upheaval. Then we had this period, too. Then we composed ourselves slowly. Now I am repeating this again and again: When children reveal themselves with their sexual orientation, everything turns into their sexuality. This is wrong. In the puberty it is much harder to undergo this period all alone. They are challenged in structuralizing their identities. In their puberty, in particular, they need their families more. For God’s sake we overcame this process quickly. Thanks God, what else can I say?

Our Department is Very Challenging 

Eda, what did you experience when you learnt that your child was a transsexual?
Eda: Our department is very challenging. There is the problem of outlook in our department… First of all, it is something about which we do not know anything. My brain was operated twice. After the second surgery, my right eye saw five, my left six, I couldn’t hold my head and legs; I could not open my mouth. They said, “You won’t listen to the news. You won’t experience anything sad…”

But the movie of your life began after the surgery…
E: First my mum cared for me. After I composed myself a little bit, I went home. And my child did not wait a while, he came and said, “Do you know mum, if you had died, I couldn’t have lived with my grandma and my father.” When I listened to him, I became gloomy suddenly… He calculated that I might die and thought what he might do… I thought that probably he became depressed, got panic-stricken. Then he said suddenly: “My soul and my body are two different things.” I was shocked. Indeed I did not understand what he meant… I said to myself, damn my paternal aunt had schizophrenia…

You thought that he had schizophrenia…
E: Yes, he stopped eating and drinking regularly about one year ago. I brought him to doctors, shrines, everywhere. And he is very wild… He snarls continuously. “What does that mean? My body and my soul are two different things? Yes, of course he is schizophrenic…” said I to myself. Then he said: “Mum, I am girl.”

How old was he?
E: Sixteen. I said, “Oh! He has his puberty and he does not know. Since he is apart from his father, maybe he couldn’t manage… I was shocked. Then I exploited the computer, I was searching… We began to visit doctors. They put electrodes to his head. I did not tell anyone, so that the rumor may not spread around. I had four credit cards, and I have nothing else in this world. Some say 200 bugs, and we have that test costs 300 bugs. And he says, “No, I am a girl. You cannot change me.”

Naturally you went to Çapa afterwards?
E: Then… You know, every mother has this guideline when she has her first child: What would my baby say? Mouth of the baby produces saliva. Why? Teeth grow. But there is no guideline for the mothers of transsexuals. I felt anguish. Well, maybe, something did happen to him, said I to myself. I let him examined immediately. Nothing had happened. Psychiatrists gave a medicine, but that was no remedy. Someday he went shopping. He gave a try for a t-shirt. I saw that he had breasts. I asked “What’s this?”

Hormones…
E: I said “because of sage tea” he was drinking sage tea frequently. But then I was informed by the Internet that he swallowed birth controlling pills. Since there is estrogen in these pills, his breasts began to grow. Since testosterone and estrogen attack each other, he was always strained. Then, doctor directed me to Çapa, to Şahika Yüksel. Mrs. Şahika asked me, “Why did you come here, what do you expect from me?” I wanted that the issue might be clarified. I told: “Doctor, he does this, he snarls this way, and he weeps that way… My paternal aunt was schizophrenic as well.” Doctor Şahika said: “You want me that I say that your child is mentally ill? Do you want this? But he is not… He is a transsexual…” Well, we had a conversation… After it’s over, I saw that I was almost lamed. I sat down to a bank in Çapa, I cried aloud. I had lost a child; I had lost my son…

You thought you had lost him…
E: Yes, but at the same time a daughter was born… But she is seventeen and I did not know how I would nurture her. I had a big baby. And the road is so dark, such a tunnel, there is no light at all. In fact, there are a lot of windows, the window of the family, the window of the child, the window of the medicine… But I do not know and I cry. Where was I mistaken? What was my fault? I began to blame myself. I was the cause of the problem? Since I knew that children who were raised by their mothers; I was always a masculine mother. I supported a team, I shouted, I yelled… In short, I left my self… I was the only, dear daughter of my mother and I was a lady! I cried a lot, I shouted. At the same time I am working, I have to work. I am always obliged, obliged… I meet signboards: one-way… First the way was the one which my mother and father wanted: you will be a lady, bow your head while you’re walking, cook for three meals, iron trousers, what will her daughter say if you etc., do not make me submit, do not do this, do not do that… Then, we married, we started to play house of our own, our own dishware. But I did not submit totally. I struggled. They raised me so. My mother and my father were teachers. I remember one day, the arm of my doll broke and I ran to my father. You know what he said: “What did you do so you couldn’t fix the problem? Did you challenge yourself? First you have to challenge yourself, and then you’ll get help…” I was raised with these words. Thanks to this mentality I could decide to divorce. My husband is doctor. When I said to him, “I take my two children and I am quitting this game,” I knew that the price I had to pay would be a hard one. Since I was married, a period of 15 years, I made marmalades, I made pickles, I cared for my children, I removed dust, I ironed… Like a Japanese geisha… What else would we do? I came to Istanbul with two children and two mattresses.

And your family?
E: My family opposed. I deactivated them, so that nobody would interfere. I face my fears usually. I had then to fight for my new daughter. One day I found tweezers under the bed. I said to myself, “It doesn’t work this way. You will manage everything all alone.” Then, I bought a make-up set. I penetrated into her window. So I distanced myself from the windows of my mother, of my father, of my aunt, of my neighbor, of my grocer, and of my working place, and when I look from her own window, I was able to help her more quickly. I feel that I am strong. I accomplished many things. I found a job, I visited some training programs, I graduated, so I always struggled. After I found the tweezers, I bought a make-up set and a mirror… Now I am in Aysel Gürel Beşiktaş Bazaar…

In order to make her happy?
E: Indeed, I suffered profoundly. There were two Eda: the mother and the child. Look, she shapes her eye brows; she made them thinner and thinner.

Couldn’t she?
E: No, not because she couldn’t, she thought she had to be the best women among women. The nails should be the longest, the best women she had to be. You tell her, she doesn’t understand, she is full of ecstasy… I saw that every effort would be useless. I and her doctor recognized her freedom, and we struggled together. If there is nobody in supporting her, she would suffer hardships. We have to help her in relation with her orientation so that she may be relieved… Like, “I will get operated, I will be this, I will be that, I will reshaped my this and that, my Adam and Eve…” When we entered a shop, we went immediately to its female section… I bought her wonder bras. Various bras, in every color… I said, “Look, it is fastened this way.” Imagine, you are teaching your son how to fasten bras… This is not an easy phase… Bu I am relieved whenever I see her like a butterfly… Because I generated him, when I took him on my lap, I said “I will die, if something happens to him.”

As if you give birth twice, first him then her…
E: Exactly, I did not know anything. I did not posses guidelines or brochures so that I open the book and learn this and that… I was really challenged. Then I revealed to my brother, who is an engineer. He said, “It may happen, sister, however he will be happy… I support you,” but he disappeared for a while. I could not tell my father and my mother; my mother, um, she has her own rules, every rule should be obeyed…

How did her father react?
E: He said, “OK, he will change. You will get operated, and when you become 25, you will earn your money, you will have a profession, you would do anything you want,” then he went away. Someday I called him, “Help me,” I said. She shapes her brows… I did not want to miss. Her father said, “You took him, you went away and you are looking for a door to leave him?” Indeed, if my son were normal, I would persevere my marriage with him.

And the reactions of other relatives? Nobody knows?
E: My aunt knows solely. She kissed her, she smelled her, “You are a beautiful girl, indeed.” She is beautiful, really, but she does not like herself. They are such … Those from that department do not like themselves. When I give him oxygen continuously, I was supported by a male friend much. When he saw me crying and visiting doctors, he challenged me for an answer. First it was hard to reveal myself, then when I told he said, “What’s the problem? My children may become, too…” We talked and talked till dawn. He became a friend of my child. She asked him questions which she couldn’t ask me. It was that he said, “Look mother, for the first time somebody is doing things like that for me.” Because he does not have a ‘father’. It is easy to run away and refuse… I am both working and am mother and am father, I am both a man and a woman… What am I, is not clear at all!

Men Are More Superficial 

Gülseren, how his father reacted?
G: We are open, we were not moved, and we accumulated our sorrows in every trouble. We always discussed problems openly, and solved them. We talked about this, too. “If it is, then it is.” We acquiesced it. But it is harder for the father… During the first phase we blamed ourselves mutually. When in the therapy it is revealed that the relation with the father was lacking, I said to my husband “You do not sacrifice from your time sufficiently.” In truth, we always spend our Sundays together. Now he is accepting, but at the same time, one gets the feeling as if he does not recognize. He is not offended and chats with him concerning general issues.

He does not talk about this issue?
G: No, he does not talk about this issue. When we began to talk with our child, I asked my husband, “Shall we talk together?” and he answered, “Say that your father thinks the same way, but I do not want to talk about it.” He did not come to family meetings in Lambda, but we hope that he will come. It is crucial that we attract first our husbands then our families to the group. He did not share it with his friends yet. If he shares, it would be easier to come to the family group. Unfortunately, we belong to a masculine society. And it is harder for them to transcend this mentality…
E: Our father care about his career, too. “Do not come to me in this manner, everybody knows you.”

Selma, how did the father react in your family?
S: When I felt this concerning my son and was asking “If, if?” I said to him, “Let’s talk together.” I said, “A lifelong process is beginning. Whatever may happen, we will be ruined or we will save ourselves, but we will share.” And we shared together. We walked together; we experienced our upheavals, our struggles in finding solutions…

Being different from you, what was the difference in his attitude?
S: In fact, he did not react as much as me at first. He accepted more calmly, but within the process he was hurt much more. Although I said ‘no, impossible’ at the beginning, I accepted more easily. Of course, thereafter he accepted, too.

He did not come to the meetings in Lambda?
S: He participated in only one of them. He has an enthusiasm, but I do not say, “Come, please” because I do know my husband, he does not like fait accompli. But he participated in the panels which was a big step. After these panels, a lot of Lambda brochures were found at home. He reads them: What is transsexual, what is gay, what is this, what is that… He reads every line one by one and tells me, “Look, this is this, that is that…” It proceeds well and he supports me.. But dear Pınar, when I began, I always proceeded secretly. I wrote to a newspaper, I went to the congress alone, I did not tell anyone. Thereafter, I told.

Did he get angry because you did not tell him?
S: No, he did not get angry. He cried when reading the papers. He embraced etc. A lot of things alike which means we are proceeding well…

But generally women are managing the family working…
S: We have a father, too. He was interviewed. Bu mothers are managing the work.

Why the work is left to women…
S: Women have a different power then men instinctively…

Maybe we are differentiated because of our different experiences?
S: Woman carries her child in her womb, she engenders which means she has a profound connection with it. It is true that fathers love them and love them passionately, but not as much as a mother.
E: They are superficial. We think in a more detailed manner… For example, we know where all the spices have to be, one by one. We go into details whenever we cook, for example how much dill, how much parsley and we can accomplish more then one task at the same time. Men do not think deep and detailed, they are superficial, but they think detailed concerning their interests, cars, sports etc… Maybe whenever they have an interest in something.
S: Since we are oppressed, we struggle. We go into details; we give meaning to what we have experienced.
G: And the sensitivity of a woman is much different. The perspective of men is much more superficial. Their perspective is superficial, too, concerning the relation between men and women.

They are raised this way?
S: I think, they are raised so.

What kind of a rearing is that?
S: For example, we were four siblings. At home, girls were responsible for every task. We prepared the table; we helped in cooking and cleaning. My mother was raised that way, too. A process like a chain reaction. Since man is the one who brings, we always have to respect, even have to revere…
G: My husband does not have an intention concerning sexual discrimination much.

Then why your husband cannot talk to his son as relax as you do?
G: In truth, it is escape… They look superficial; they do not want to think in a detailed manner.
S: The person who helped us arranged sessions for us. We sat in couches: my daughter, my son, my husband and I. Each of us talked for fifteen minutes. How do we feel towards the other members of the family? It helped, we felt much better and our processes concerning talking improved.

OUR KIDS OUTGROW US

The influence of the environment makes it harder, isn’t it… You are concealing your original names here…
S: It shows the social pressure… We can share only with people who are near to our own norms. But if somebody asks I do not lie, “Yes, it is so.” When we started to walk this road, we felt ‘How may the environment react?’ pressure much more. But now we aim to attract families to us. At this phase, being anonymous is crucial… If you show yourself in press with your original names, less people will come. Our first reactions were alike. Indeed, family evolves up to a certain point after experiencing this process in itself. Within a couple of years the number of people with whom we have shared our experiences increased. My child is an open homosexual, he transcended this. He says, “This is not my problem, this is your problem.” He is utterly right. Our problem, our fears.

Are you experiencing it harder?
S: We walk more slowly, we are behind.G: They say: “Be open”
S: They are completely right. But we are encouraged more and more, don’t we?

Can you share with your environment Gülseren?
G: I solely shared with my sister. I have not shared with my brother and my mother up to now. I do not need, there is no need to confuse them. But I have a group of friends with whom I am very close. I never hide it from them. If somebody asks, I say. Actually, my child says “Be open,” and I do not feel disturbed, but concerning my familial environment I still hesitate.

And you Eda? After your child changed her clothes, what were the reactions of neighbors?
E: I do not meet with anybody. I say, “I have to work, I am sleeping.” Not in order to escape, but so that my child feels herself comfortable at home. She has to wander from room to room at home with an indoor dress freely… She ties her hair up, looses her hair, she unfasten the buckles, dye her hair after having boiled daisy, she does this, she does that, she makes up her face, she binds her hair, coif her hair… So that I may make her happy, I do not care people at all. I cannot waste time with “What does he think? What does she think?” Life is so short, why should I make it harder? My child takes a step and until I reach this step she makes another. It is impossible that I deal with anybody.
S: These kids are all like that… My child is the same… First he makes an effort, he follows it. Then, he drags me.
E: Everybody is responsible for his/her own improvement… At first I did not know what Lambda was, I was making research on internet about what transsexual is, what orientation is, what identity is…

Did you discover Lambda before your child discovered it?
E: Yes. I found Lambda, I phoned, “I want to meet with you because I want to share, is it to be this way, is it to be that way, how is this happening, what he does is normal or not, what do I have to do, what is not…” On internet it is written that Lambda is an association, hence a legal institution. And I come smoothly. Just as I entered, somebody wanted my identity card. I thought that the person was an officer of Lambda, but he was a police… I was informed then that at that day police assaulted Lambda… And I suffer anxiety disorder. I had been long before a very anxious person, after the operation my anxiety increased. “Mister, what’s this, what do you assault? What did I do, give my identity card… I am the mother of a transsexual child, I’ve learnt that my child is so…” I began to talk with two polices… I said, “I did not do anything.” “Look at where do you want to, I do not have anything.” I felt tension. Why did I feel tension? As a mother what I am doing… The reason that I am interviewed, if there are mothers and fathers who have encountered their children; if he or she cannot face him/herself, please call me because I called, too.

We got stronger in LAMBDA

What’s the importance of the Lambda family group for families?
G: Our objective is to support families and to share the hardships they suffer after the opening process. They may call Lambda counseling call center and ask anything they want to. For example, I learnt what we should do during the process in the army. The guideline we prepared is like a manual so that everybody may understand… Like ‘How a child should be raised?’ we answer the question ‘How the mother of a gay should behave his child?’ in that guideline. We are making an effort to attach an appendix for mothers of transsexuals.

How you are affected by finding each other and sharing your experiences of each other?
G: We got stronger. We want to reveal the experiences different from each other so that people may not feel themselves alone because in fact we have to face the same problems.

Thanks to that work you do not feel yourself alone, isn’t it?
S: Of course, I do not feel alone at all. There are friends whom I can call immediately and talk. We can share everything. If only we would share with the whole world…

Eda, what did you feel after this process of sharing?
E: I felt relieved so much because this is not a task which I can accomplish all alone. Why? Let our children live without being exposed to isolation and discrimination. And it is not easy to deal with it individually. And what shall we do? We will increase the consciousness of people. Sexual identity is a part of identity… They have their own intelligence and talents. For our own part, we have to be patient and tolerant… We will hold their hand. They are in a big conflict anyway. And we shall be at their sides. Let it be their jobs, let it be their love… The support of the family is very important… For example, the officer says “But this is a blue identity card” when the picture will be changed. I show the paper immediately, I say, “I am his mother,” and he does his work without any objection. He attends the OSS exams. He is so anxious. He has a tension because of the exam anyway. And she says, “Everybody is looking at me. At which side shall I be, while they will examine me. At the right side a male police and at the left side a female one. I say immediately, “Come my daughter, do not get excited. Go to the left side where the female police officer is standing. Pretty daughter, do your best.” She takes a breath and is relieved. They find themselves within a big conflict anyway. Hence, sexuality is not their sole problem. Nobody shall regard them as genitals. In fact, it is so simple… People are manifold like plants… Some of them grow in pots, some of them in forests; these people are alike, too. One has to trust them.

How affects your presence other gays in Lambda?
S: In Lambda those children are destitute. Since I am the first mother going to Lambda, they were looking askance when they saw me. Hence, there were times when I said to myself “Do not go there, to these kids.” They were saying, “May I embrace you? May I call you mum?”
G: Mothers and fathers shall not spare their love…
S: A lesbian girl told me that her mother said to her “I hate you, I despise you.” We embraced each other and we cried etc. Families do not have the right to make their children experience this. What is this suffering to that degree? If a family does this to the child, then what make the others do? Then what meaning has love? Will we love always conditionally?
E: A child came to Lambda and said to me “May I talk to you about something? My mother is a dentist and my father is a doctor but I cannot reveal my condition, what do I have to do? I am so afraid that they may throw me out.” I said, “Write a letter and say, ‘I am not a murderer, I am not a psycho, I am not a thief.’ There is nothing to be ashamed of. ‘These are my feelings.’” because they need this. All of these children are educated, they have a good background. These are those who can reach us. And what will those who couldn’t reach will be?

What are you doing to reach other families?
G: Our objective is to make the family gatherings broader. We will hand down these guidelines everywhere. At first, we want to reach the families of the children coming to Lambda. Gay Pride was very beneficent for us. We succeeded to look broader, we attended every conference. We reached a couple of families, too. Now we wish a volunteer psychologist so that he/she may participated some of our meetings and may direct us. We also want a space on internet where we may share our experiences. First we may write and people may read, and so they may be encouraged. Even if people do not come to our meetings, they may read our experiences. Of course, not everyone has an internet connection, but it may still be useful. We do not force people, by saying “Mothers and fathers have to come to Lambda.” We may gather somewhere they want to come, a meeting at home or we may meet at a café. But we are at Lambda every Saturday between 16:00 and 18:00 in every case. They may reach there, too.

Usually people from middle class reaches to your family work, isn’t it? You cannot reach poor people and ghettos of the city?
G: Our children are lucky, since they have such mothers and families and they have such financial resources. They may go to therapists, but in ghettos it is impossible. Someday a child brought his mother to us. She was dwelling in Gaziosmanpaşa. It is hard to be accepted in such a place. She said, “My daughter wears headscarf and she’ll get married soon, but if they hear that my son is that kind, they will not accept her, her marriage will be ruined. And that makes me sad.” And we said, “But aren’t you sad because of the situation of your son?”, but we couldn’t help this mother. We need a much stronger organization.

One will be closed down, another will be opened

What do you think about the closure of Lambda? What would happen when Lambda did not exist?
G: We are against the closure of Lambda. State should not interfere with one’s way of thinking, of one’s religion, of the way one lives his/her life. They say freedom when they are against the closure of one party, but for them closure of an association is normal. There are associations alike in Ankara, in Eskişehir, in Bursa. I do not think that it will be closed. Even if there will be a negative decision, it will be disavowed by international platform. It is clear that the excuses are not true… It is propagated that if Lambda will not close down, “immorality will increase, homosexuality will increase!” Homosexuality is not infective. Its visibility is revealed. That’s why they are afraid. These children are not immoral, it is not reasonable to give their sexuality prominence. Hence, it is not true that “homosexuals have sexual intercourse more frequently.”
S: The illness of the world is to create ‘others’. Everyone makes an otherization from the other. It starts in the family and spreads as a disease. In truth, there is sufficient place for everyone, for everything.
G: How much we are open to our environment, the look towards gays will change to that degree. We need Lambda so that this change may happen.

If Lambda did not exist, Selma, how would you experience this process?
S: I happened to live this process already. But of course I would have lived more backwardly, you know, it would not have fulfilled to that degree. We are sharing much here. In our society family is very important. If you stay beside your child and say “I am his/her mother” nobody has the power to say anything against it. Well, how much we may unite, we may back our children, we may tell the society that it is not wrong, that it is a natural emotional process to that degree. And we may demonstrate that it is not something to be awed as well… Of course we are in the midst of a mine field. We are paving our way slowly.

Recalling Clitoris…

Eda, you have succeeded to stand on your feet all alone, as a woman. And now thanks to your new daughter, which means in your new department, you say that you have learnt much. What did you discover in this process concerning your femininity? What did your daughter teach you?
E: Very curious, she taught me my sexuality …
How?
E: Now, she will be operated at the genitals, and will become a female… We went to doctor. I am asking questions constantly, how many hours will the operation last, how much is it, how many days she has to stay there, is there pain, is there blood, death? My daughter says, “Will there be a clitoris or not?” Ah, I was shocked. Where is my clitoris? I have forgotten it completely… I do not know where my clitoris is, I have forgotten.

Did your new daughter recall you your clitoris?
E: Yes, she taught me my sexuality. Well, she is a real female. I learnt that femininity is very important, that sexual life is very important. Then, to share our grieves, to share in general.. Well, I did have a longing inside as well. We talk about these things, we talk about love. Always platonic love. She falls in love, she is very tired. “Mom, this and that…” We share everything. We all, the mothers here also. We do not hide something. Shame on those who hide. By talking constantly, I learnt my femininity from my child.
G: I originate from a traditional family. But I had a very rebellious soul right from my girlhood, and I was reading in my puberty concerning sexuality a lot… There were Eros magazines, every volume… I was reading them. Well, I have a knowledge concerning sexuality before I have married. Despite the fact that my husband and I came from a revolutionist tradition, we do not give credit to strict rules, to things like ‘revolutionist marriage’. And we experienced our first sexual experiences together for the first time; we had a very beautiful sexual life. We were open at everything. I believe that the sexuality between two persons is a matter of these individuals alone. If it is normal to two individuals than it is normal. It’s as simple as this. Therefore, we experienced it together with my husband very openly and very beautifully. I had a very good sexuality and had my child three years after, very willingly, after a very beautiful sexual relationship. Well I know which sexual experience it was, to that degree I know, and I can express it very openly. Hence, we do not care about his sexuality. You know, I did not have a concern from the very first time what was happening in his bed, whether he is together with a woman or a man. We even circumcised him at hospital, although our friends told us “Why do you circumcise him so early, let him decide” but we had it at the hospital. We do not go through this ‘transition to manhood’ thing. I am against that circumcisions are exaggerated to that degree. Then, the beginning of the menstruations of the girls should have been celebrated, too. I was thinking that way in the past as well.

But still you have learnt something thanks to his experiences…
G: Thanks to his experience I clarified some conceptions better. I had an ambiguity in my mind about some concepts, well transsexual, transvestite etc… These are much more clarified now.

I learnt to say “No” and to desire

Selma, you said that “Kids are one step ahead”. As a woman, what did you discover, which you had not noticed beforehand, when following him?
S: My child became my teacher. I asked myself “Who am I?” only after him. This kid was able to ask himself that question when he was 16 or 17, and me, I did not ask this question at all. I lived the life of my father, I lived the life of my mother, I lived the life of my husband, I lived the life of my child. How do I feel? What are my emotions? Of what do I fear? Of what am I pleased? How can I become happy? I did not know anything. I did not know my feelings. I did not even know what a feeling is.

Can you answer the question “Who I am?” now?
S: Now I can answer. Imagine a puzzle. I came to this world as the lower paperboard of this puzzle; my mother added something, society added something, I went to the school, my teacher added something… They always said “You have to be like this, and you should be molded that way, then I will love you better, then I will accept you better.” You know, they made a puzzle out of me. Everybody has a part, but inside there is not me. You know what I did afterwards, I poured everything out… I established myself from zero. You know, it was a reincarnation for me. Thanks to him, I came to this world twice. We bore each other; I cannot describe you what the process was like…
Well, according to you, what is the most “This has changed inside me”?
S: What has been changed most? First of all, I confide in me. What I do love, what I do like, what I do want, what I would say “no”, these are important to me now. Sometimes I was conceiving sex as a duty beforehand. Now times have changed, I may say “no” I may say “I desire”. I can utter these voluntarily. Before, it was a shame that I would desire something; because I was taught this way. I never said my husband “Come on…” in sexual relationship. Always man has to desire. Now it is over.
FOOT:

Always the same questions…

Why did you go to Italy?
G: We went to Italy to participate in a family meeting. A meeting of the families of homosexual individuals supported by the EU. The discussion was about the insights and the social visibility of the families. And they were similar to those of ours. Religion and Church is very important in Italy, as well. Parents experienced always similar problems. They, too, cannot reach provincial. The majority consisted of those graduated from universities. There was Mrs. Lale, a German representative. They do not have Family Groups yet, and they were excited by our Family Group. She invited us to Germany. We will share our experiences with Turkish families there, and we will enable that they may open. In fact, Europe is not very different from here. I used to say that “Ah, if my son goes to Europe, he will be so comfortable.” On the contrary we have learnt, in some countries it is more comfortable, but in most of them not. For example, in the meeting in Italy, French, Bulgaria and Greece was not present, some countries did not come at all. They are not different, the familial processes are similar. They are doing new things, too. We are not so much backwardly, we saw that.